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	<title>Comments on: there&#8217;s conscientious, and then there&#8217;s conscientious</title>
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	<link>http://peripheralvision.ca/blog/2008/03/30/theres-conscientious-and-then-theres-conscientious/</link>
	<description>because making photographs exposes as much about the photographer as the subject</description>
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		<title>By: peripheral vision blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; return</title>
		<link>http://peripheralvision.ca/blog/2008/03/30/theres-conscientious-and-then-theres-conscientious/comment-page-1/#comment-61</link>
		<dc:creator>peripheral vision blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; return</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 May 2008 17:53:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peripheralvision.ca/blog/?p=9#comment-61</guid>
		<description>[...] a genre necessarily focused on subject matter. But to me, and as I mentioned in relation to an earlier post, I don&#8217;t think photographic clichés are so much about subject matter as treatment. I think [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] a genre necessarily focused on subject matter. But to me, and as I mentioned in relation to an earlier post, I don&#8217;t think photographic clichés are so much about subject matter as treatment. I think [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Drugs and Art &#8212; HeatherMortonArt buyer</title>
		<link>http://peripheralvision.ca/blog/2008/03/30/theres-conscientious-and-then-theres-conscientious/comment-page-1/#comment-13</link>
		<dc:creator>Drugs and Art &#8212; HeatherMortonArt buyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Apr 2008 02:37:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peripheralvision.ca/blog/?p=9#comment-13</guid>
		<description>[...] the series has provoked. I won&#8217;t regurgitate it here but I do encourage you to go here and here and and then come back home and comment below on this interesting debate about what art should and [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the series has provoked. I won&#8217;t regurgitate it here but I do encourage you to go here and here and and then come back home and comment below on this interesting debate about what art should and [...]</p>
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		<title>By: kate w</title>
		<link>http://peripheralvision.ca/blog/2008/03/30/theres-conscientious-and-then-theres-conscientious/comment-page-1/#comment-12</link>
		<dc:creator>kate w</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Apr 2008 00:30:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peripheralvision.ca/blog/?p=9#comment-12</guid>
		<description>Thank you both for coming back and continuing the discussion. Like Tony, I wasn&#039;t missing your point, JM, I just disagreed with it (not sure if your name is spelled Jorg or Joerg?). The thing is, I&#039;m not used to images of war or starving people or drug addicts or sick people, especially if they&#039;re good photos.  I&#039;m also coming at this question not as an art critic or even really as a photographer so much as someone who has been changed, in real life and in small, daily actions, by things I&#039;ve read and seen. I&#039;m not saying those actions are changing the world, but I think it makes a difference to a panhandler to look them in the eye as I pass. 

That said, I haven&#039;t looked at the sheer number of images that I&#039;m sure you have, and maybe if I did I would become numb to these kinds of images, but I hope I never do. I know I see lots of photography that bores me, that feels like a cliché. But it&#039;s not the subject matter alone that makes an image clichéd, in my opinion. It&#039;s viewpoint, treatment, and a million other things that you&#039;d be much better at articulating than I am.

I hope I haven&#039;t offended you; that wasn&#039;t my intention at all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you both for coming back and continuing the discussion. Like Tony, I wasn&#8217;t missing your point, JM, I just disagreed with it (not sure if your name is spelled Jorg or Joerg?). The thing is, I&#8217;m not used to images of war or starving people or drug addicts or sick people, especially if they&#8217;re good photos.  I&#8217;m also coming at this question not as an art critic or even really as a photographer so much as someone who has been changed, in real life and in small, daily actions, by things I&#8217;ve read and seen. I&#8217;m not saying those actions are changing the world, but I think it makes a difference to a panhandler to look them in the eye as I pass. </p>
<p>That said, I haven&#8217;t looked at the sheer number of images that I&#8217;m sure you have, and maybe if I did I would become numb to these kinds of images, but I hope I never do. I know I see lots of photography that bores me, that feels like a cliché. But it&#8217;s not the subject matter alone that makes an image clichéd, in my opinion. It&#8217;s viewpoint, treatment, and a million other things that you&#8217;d be much better at articulating than I am.</p>
<p>I hope I haven&#8217;t offended you; that wasn&#8217;t my intention at all.</p>
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		<title>By: tony fouhse</title>
		<link>http://peripheralvision.ca/blog/2008/03/30/theres-conscientious-and-then-theres-conscientious/comment-page-1/#comment-11</link>
		<dc:creator>tony fouhse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Mar 2008 16:55:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peripheralvision.ca/blog/?p=9#comment-11</guid>
		<description>Does this mean, Joerg, that no one should go to document war anymore?  Or that staving children should be off limits for photographers?  I can&#039;t follow that argument, it just seems to be too categorical.  

I&#039;m not missing your point, I&#039;m (respectfully) disagreeing with it.

I know that imagery of war and starvation and pestilence affects me.  Not all of it, of course....but it does go into my brain and I do think about it.  I, for one, am not used to certain of those images.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does this mean, Joerg, that no one should go to document war anymore?  Or that staving children should be off limits for photographers?  I can&#8217;t follow that argument, it just seems to be too categorical.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m not missing your point, I&#8217;m (respectfully) disagreeing with it.</p>
<p>I know that imagery of war and starvation and pestilence affects me.  Not all of it, of course&#8230;.but it does go into my brain and I do think about it.  I, for one, am not used to certain of those images.</p>
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		<title>By: JM Colberg</title>
		<link>http://peripheralvision.ca/blog/2008/03/30/theres-conscientious-and-then-theres-conscientious/comment-page-1/#comment-10</link>
		<dc:creator>JM Colberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Mar 2008 16:01:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peripheralvision.ca/blog/?p=9#comment-10</guid>
		<description>Tony&#039;s photos on their own don&#039;t generate the fad, but seeing a whole bunch of series like his recently does. That&#039;s what it comes down to, and that&#039;s what you have been missing (as has Tony). In the end, this kind of photography can easily generate the same kind of response that we now get when confronted with war photography or images of starving people in Africa: We&#039;re used to the images.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tony&#8217;s photos on their own don&#8217;t generate the fad, but seeing a whole bunch of series like his recently does. That&#8217;s what it comes down to, and that&#8217;s what you have been missing (as has Tony). In the end, this kind of photography can easily generate the same kind of response that we now get when confronted with war photography or images of starving people in Africa: We&#8217;re used to the images.</p>
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		<title>By: tony fouhse</title>
		<link>http://peripheralvision.ca/blog/2008/03/30/theres-conscientious-and-then-theres-conscientious/comment-page-1/#comment-9</link>
		<dc:creator>tony fouhse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Mar 2008 12:25:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peripheralvision.ca/blog/?p=9#comment-9</guid>
		<description>Tony here again......

I want to state from the get-go that I don&#039;t need to agree with someone in order to respect them.  And (like I mention in my blog post) I do respect what Joerg is doing.  I can see his point when it comes to the whole representation of drug addicts thing. I personally hate fads.....I think that anyone who knows me would tell you that I&#039;m just not a faddish guy.  In fact, the opposite is probably true.  I never set about to do the USER portraits to be faddish.  I just sort of fell into it....almost as though they chose me as much as I chose them.  It seemed right to me.

Putting all the art world aspects aside, though, I can report that on a macro level, working with the subjects on the ground, there has been positive change because of this work.  I won&#039;t go into them here, you&#039;ll have to take my word that many of the people involved in this project (the addicts, their case workers and the people who have seen the images) have told me that the images have changed their minds a little bit, had a positive effect.

Perhaps it&#039;s true, what Joerg says....that in the larger context these are just another batch of shots that will further numb the population.  I&#039;ve never held out much hope for any real positive change from anything, really.  My contention is that human beings are poorly evolved mammals and the most anyone can do is to try to find their own meaning.

So we get differences of opinion and that seems right too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tony here again&#8230;&#8230;</p>
<p>I want to state from the get-go that I don&#8217;t need to agree with someone in order to respect them.  And (like I mention in my blog post) I do respect what Joerg is doing.  I can see his point when it comes to the whole representation of drug addicts thing. I personally hate fads&#8230;..I think that anyone who knows me would tell you that I&#8217;m just not a faddish guy.  In fact, the opposite is probably true.  I never set about to do the USER portraits to be faddish.  I just sort of fell into it&#8230;.almost as though they chose me as much as I chose them.  It seemed right to me.</p>
<p>Putting all the art world aspects aside, though, I can report that on a macro level, working with the subjects on the ground, there has been positive change because of this work.  I won&#8217;t go into them here, you&#8217;ll have to take my word that many of the people involved in this project (the addicts, their case workers and the people who have seen the images) have told me that the images have changed their minds a little bit, had a positive effect.</p>
<p>Perhaps it&#8217;s true, what Joerg says&#8230;.that in the larger context these are just another batch of shots that will further numb the population.  I&#8217;ve never held out much hope for any real positive change from anything, really.  My contention is that human beings are poorly evolved mammals and the most anyone can do is to try to find their own meaning.</p>
<p>So we get differences of opinion and that seems right too.</p>
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		<title>By: kate w</title>
		<link>http://peripheralvision.ca/blog/2008/03/30/theres-conscientious-and-then-theres-conscientious/comment-page-1/#comment-8</link>
		<dc:creator>kate w</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Mar 2008 02:01:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peripheralvision.ca/blog/?p=9#comment-8</guid>
		<description>Oh - and to me, it&#039;s about the interaction of the photographer and the subject. I think pictures of street people run the risk of being visual clichés if there&#039;s no interaction. But human interactions show, and I think that&#039;s what keep portraits from being a cliché. Because ultimately, that person is the only person in the world who is exactly like that person.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh &#8211; and to me, it&#8217;s about the interaction of the photographer and the subject. I think pictures of street people run the risk of being visual clichés if there&#8217;s no interaction. But human interactions show, and I think that&#8217;s what keep portraits from being a cliché. Because ultimately, that person is the only person in the world who is exactly like that person.</p>
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		<title>By: kate w</title>
		<link>http://peripheralvision.ca/blog/2008/03/30/theres-conscientious-and-then-theres-conscientious/comment-page-1/#comment-7</link>
		<dc:creator>kate w</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Mar 2008 01:59:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peripheralvision.ca/blog/?p=9#comment-7</guid>
		<description>JM, I did understand that component of your comment, but I disagree. I don&#039;t think it&#039;s a fad to look at people and see another human being instead of looking away. 

I think Fouhse&#039;s images will make viewers see people on the street with more compassion, next time they&#039;re out and about. I really do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JM, I did understand that component of your comment, but I disagree. I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s a fad to look at people and see another human being instead of looking away. </p>
<p>I think Fouhse&#8217;s images will make viewers see people on the street with more compassion, next time they&#8217;re out and about. I really do.</p>
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		<title>By: JM Colberg</title>
		<link>http://peripheralvision.ca/blog/2008/03/30/theres-conscientious-and-then-theres-conscientious/comment-page-1/#comment-6</link>
		<dc:creator>JM Colberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Mar 2008 01:35:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peripheralvision.ca/blog/?p=9#comment-6</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m afraid you didn&#039;t quite understand what the problem is. The problem is simply that drug addicts are turned into yet another visual cliche and/or fad in the art world (and we&#039;re right on track to achieve this, if we&#039;re not already there) - where, in the end, people react to such images with a shrug (&quot;Oh, I&#039;ve seen stuff like this. I want to see something new.&quot;). That would/will put drug addicts into an even worse state than they&#039;re in already.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m afraid you didn&#8217;t quite understand what the problem is. The problem is simply that drug addicts are turned into yet another visual cliche and/or fad in the art world (and we&#8217;re right on track to achieve this, if we&#8217;re not already there) &#8211; where, in the end, people react to such images with a shrug (&#8221;Oh, I&#8217;ve seen stuff like this. I want to see something new.&#8221;). That would/will put drug addicts into an even worse state than they&#8217;re in already.</p>
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		<title>By: tony fouhse</title>
		<link>http://peripheralvision.ca/blog/2008/03/30/theres-conscientious-and-then-theres-conscientious/comment-page-1/#comment-5</link>
		<dc:creator>tony fouhse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Mar 2008 01:06:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peripheralvision.ca/blog/?p=9#comment-5</guid>
		<description>thanks Kate, you made my day.

tony</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>thanks Kate, you made my day.</p>
<p>tony</p>
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